hey everyone,<br />
<br />
<br />
I am having this little problam with some pages, All of the subpages I want to make have my site menu on the side, incase they want to jump to something else with out goingback to the main page.<br />
<br />
the problam is, when i go to set it up in a table i have to put in a row span if the content is smaller( less height) than the menu then the page looks fine. If the content is bigger than the menu, the menu stretches to be the same height! ahhhhhhh<br />
<br />
<br />
please take a look
<br />
<br />
<br />
thanks
<!--content-->One way to solve that problem is nested tables:<br />
<br />
For example: create an table encompassing the entire page with a td for your nav and a td for your content. The benefit to this is that you can also add a 10 pixel or so td between the two so that your content doesn't butt right up against your nav.<br />
<br />
Thus:<br />
<br />
<table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"><br />
<tr><br />
<td width="200" valign="top"><br />
PLACE YOUR ENTIRE NAVIGATION TABLE HERE<br />
<!--- indenting your code helps keep nested tables straight. ---><br />
</td><br />
<td width="10" valign="top"><br />
<!--- You may need to put a 10 px clear gif hear to hold the space ---><br />
</td><br />
<td width="100%" valign="top"><br />
PLACE YOUR CONTENT HERE<br />
</td><br />
</tr><br />
</table><br />
<br />
Place your entire nav table within your nav td. . . .Then remove your rowspan.<br />
<br />
Rowspans are tricky things . . . <br />
<br />
I can work up an example of the code for you if you want, but I'll have to do it when I get home from work this evening. (in about two hours)<br />
<br />
Good luck.<br />
-beth<!--content-->well im good with nested tables and i actually wanted to use them, but there bad design<!--content-->Originally posted by GREGO <br />
well im good with nested tables and i actually wanted to use them, but there bad design <br />
who told you that? almost all sites have some nested tables in them.<!--content-->yes, ask pegesus that one Scout becouse I always thought it was fine to. Actually to see what im talking about and get a little entertainment, you should read the post titled "pegesus please read" in the website review section. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
thanks for your replys<!--content-->yeah I have been following that one too. I wouldn't think it is bad design as it is the only way to get things how you want them.<!--content-->Well I guess if thats the only way, then ill have to do it like that for the long ones.<br />
<br />
I dont even know what the w3c is...<!--content-->Nested tables has been the accepted way for laying out sites for a long time. However if you read W3C it explicitly states they should not be used for that purpose.<br />
<br />
<br />
From: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/tables.html#h-11.1">http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-1 ... tml#h-11.1</a><!-- m --><br />
<br />
Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables.<br />
<br />
<br />
Nowadays sites should start using CSS-P to define their layout. At the moment I have started looking into redesigning my site using CSS-P, it doesn't look too bad but you do need to be aware of cross-browser limitations. <br />
<br />
I can point you at a good tutorial:<br />
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mako4css.com">www.mako4css.com</a><!-- w --><!--content-->Netscapes support of Stylesheets is becoming more complete, so if you want to use them to position elements, just be careful and make sure you test well in several versions of both browsers.<br />
<br />
Until I know that I can write something into my stylesheet that will work similarly in both Netscape and IE though, I prefer to use the old antiquated nested tables -- because I *know* that will work. <br />
<br />
I always use, and highly recommend, stylesheets for text styling and presentation elements that are well supported in both browsers though.<br />
<br />
-b<!--content-->Oh one other thing.<br />
<br />
Wrox makes a series of books on XML and XSLT that I really like. If you want be on the cutting edge of W3C compliance that would be a good place to start.<br />
<br />
XML and XSLT can so *very cool* things. I am still just getting my feet wet -- but what I have learned so far is great.<!--content-->Wrox makes a series of books on XML and XSLT that I really like. If you want be on the cutting edge of W3C compliance that would be a good place to start. <br />
<br />
XML and XSLT can so *very cool* things. I am still just getting my feet wet -- but what I have learned so far is great<br />
<br />
<br />
Yeah, I've just started to look into it myself. Have you seen the tutorial at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.w3schools.com">www.w3schools.com</a><!-- w -->? It's really quite good.<!--content-->No I hadn't, but thanks for the link.<br />
<br />
I'll check it out. If you haven't already, check out the Wrox books -- Oh, and O'Reilly makes a decent "pocket guide" to XML. Handy little things those.<!--content-->I wouldn't use CSS for tables, in fact the only thing that I use it for is links. Nesting tables works fine (so long as you use the border="0" attribute).<br />
<br />
I'll have to look into that XSLT & XML stuff.<!--content-->One thing to note.<br />
<br />
In Netscape, tables do funny things to stylesheets -- so it's a good idea to put your declare your default text style on your p, li, div, span, td, etc. tags and then change them with a class declaration -- defining the default text style in the body tag has been known to cause problems.<br />
<br />
Those of you who are already adept at stylesheets probably already know this . . those who aren't -- that bit of trivia will save you some headaches.<br />
<br />
Hey, I'm level 2 now!<br />
cool.<br />
<br />
-beth<!--content-->
<br />
<br />
I am having this little problam with some pages, All of the subpages I want to make have my site menu on the side, incase they want to jump to something else with out goingback to the main page.<br />
<br />
the problam is, when i go to set it up in a table i have to put in a row span if the content is smaller( less height) than the menu then the page looks fine. If the content is bigger than the menu, the menu stretches to be the same height! ahhhhhhh<br />
<br />
<br />
please take a look
<br /><br />
<br />
thanks
<!--content-->One way to solve that problem is nested tables:<br /><br />
For example: create an table encompassing the entire page with a td for your nav and a td for your content. The benefit to this is that you can also add a 10 pixel or so td between the two so that your content doesn't butt right up against your nav.<br />
<br />
Thus:<br />
<br />
<table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"><br />
<tr><br />
<td width="200" valign="top"><br />
PLACE YOUR ENTIRE NAVIGATION TABLE HERE<br />
<!--- indenting your code helps keep nested tables straight. ---><br />
</td><br />
<td width="10" valign="top"><br />
<!--- You may need to put a 10 px clear gif hear to hold the space ---><br />
</td><br />
<td width="100%" valign="top"><br />
PLACE YOUR CONTENT HERE<br />
</td><br />
</tr><br />
</table><br />
<br />
Place your entire nav table within your nav td. . . .Then remove your rowspan.<br />
<br />
Rowspans are tricky things . . . <br />
<br />
I can work up an example of the code for you if you want, but I'll have to do it when I get home from work this evening. (in about two hours)<br />
<br />
Good luck.<br />
-beth<!--content-->well im good with nested tables and i actually wanted to use them, but there bad design<!--content-->Originally posted by GREGO <br />
well im good with nested tables and i actually wanted to use them, but there bad design <br />
who told you that? almost all sites have some nested tables in them.<!--content-->yes, ask pegesus that one Scout becouse I always thought it was fine to. Actually to see what im talking about and get a little entertainment, you should read the post titled "pegesus please read" in the website review section. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
thanks for your replys<!--content-->yeah I have been following that one too. I wouldn't think it is bad design as it is the only way to get things how you want them.<!--content-->Well I guess if thats the only way, then ill have to do it like that for the long ones.<br />
<br />
I dont even know what the w3c is...<!--content-->Nested tables has been the accepted way for laying out sites for a long time. However if you read W3C it explicitly states they should not be used for that purpose.<br />
<br />
<br />
From: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/struct/tables.html#h-11.1">http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-1 ... tml#h-11.1</a><!-- m --><br />
<br />
Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables.<br />
<br />
<br />
Nowadays sites should start using CSS-P to define their layout. At the moment I have started looking into redesigning my site using CSS-P, it doesn't look too bad but you do need to be aware of cross-browser limitations. <br />
<br />
I can point you at a good tutorial:<br />
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mako4css.com">www.mako4css.com</a><!-- w --><!--content-->Netscapes support of Stylesheets is becoming more complete, so if you want to use them to position elements, just be careful and make sure you test well in several versions of both browsers.<br />
<br />
Until I know that I can write something into my stylesheet that will work similarly in both Netscape and IE though, I prefer to use the old antiquated nested tables -- because I *know* that will work. <br />
<br />
I always use, and highly recommend, stylesheets for text styling and presentation elements that are well supported in both browsers though.<br />
<br />
-b<!--content-->Oh one other thing.<br />
<br />
Wrox makes a series of books on XML and XSLT that I really like. If you want be on the cutting edge of W3C compliance that would be a good place to start.<br />
<br />
XML and XSLT can so *very cool* things. I am still just getting my feet wet -- but what I have learned so far is great.<!--content-->Wrox makes a series of books on XML and XSLT that I really like. If you want be on the cutting edge of W3C compliance that would be a good place to start. <br />
<br />
XML and XSLT can so *very cool* things. I am still just getting my feet wet -- but what I have learned so far is great<br />
<br />
<br />
Yeah, I've just started to look into it myself. Have you seen the tutorial at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.w3schools.com">www.w3schools.com</a><!-- w -->? It's really quite good.<!--content-->No I hadn't, but thanks for the link.<br />
<br />
I'll check it out. If you haven't already, check out the Wrox books -- Oh, and O'Reilly makes a decent "pocket guide" to XML. Handy little things those.<!--content-->I wouldn't use CSS for tables, in fact the only thing that I use it for is links. Nesting tables works fine (so long as you use the border="0" attribute
).<br /><br />
I'll have to look into that XSLT & XML stuff.<!--content-->One thing to note.<br />
<br />
In Netscape, tables do funny things to stylesheets -- so it's a good idea to put your declare your default text style on your p, li, div, span, td, etc. tags and then change them with a class declaration -- defining the default text style in the body tag has been known to cause problems.<br />
<br />
Those of you who are already adept at stylesheets probably already know this . . those who aren't -- that bit of trivia will save you some headaches.<br />
<br />
Hey, I'm level 2 now!<br />
cool.<br />
<br />
-beth<!--content-->