Hi ,<br />
<br />
I was thinking of using frames in my site can someone give me there opinion on this matter... I have heard that not all browsers support them is this true? ... because I want something that will load ok no matter what browser is viewing (can someone give more details) ... also are they buggy?<br />
<br />
please give me some advice about them please!<br />
<br />
Thank You<br />
Mike<!--content-->Originally posted by HinkWaS <br />
Hi ,<br />
<br />
I was thinking of using frames in my site can someone give me there opinion on this matter... I have heard that not all browsers support them is this true? ... because I want something that will load ok no matter what browser is viewing (can someone give more details) ... also are they buggy?<br />
<br />
please give me some advice about them please!<br />
<br />
Thank You<br />
Mike <br />
Its partially true. Some frames don't work becuase of resolution, and iframes don't work on older browsers.<!--content-->so apart from the resolution being wrong normal frames will work on every browser?<br />
<br />
and is there a way to over come the resolution problem at all?<br />
<br />
could a make the lengh and width a fixed amount so it wont blow up or shink or anythin?<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
Mike<!--content-->Hmm, I dont really know. Most people use newer browsers though so feel free to use Iframes.<br />
-Endless Nights.<!--content-->If you want to be safe, add <noframes> content here </noframes> below your frame set (Im not sure if that will work with IFRAMES though)<!--content-->more info please...<br />
<br />
what does that do?<br />
what disadvantages?<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
Mike<!--content-->dude check this link out .. it should be of help to you ..<br />
<br />
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html</a><!-- m --><!--content-->Its just a backup for browsers that dont support frames. If the browser supports frames, it is ignored. So, as far as I know, there are no disadvantages. But like I said, it may not work with IFRAMES. I will check in my HTML ref, just ot make sure.<!--content-->frames are a great way to keep navigation and files current. You should be alright depending on how you're coding. I've found that people using Dreamweaver have an easier time maintaining their frames vs. people using FrontPage. Are you using either of these as an HTML editor, or something else...it would be easier to make a recomendation knowing this...<br />
<br />
L<!--content-->I use Dreamweaver <br />
,<br />
Mike<!--content-->I looked in my handy HTML ref and it say you should always use <noframe> tags after any frame. SE spiders have a hard time indexing the page if it doesnt contain those tags. If you dont want a lot of code in your file, I would link to a seperate NO FRAMES page. So your code would look something like this:<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe src=http://www.htmlforums.com/archive/index.php/"#yourFILE" height="50%" width="10%" scrolling="auto"></iframe><br />
<noframe>Your browers does not support frames. <a href=http://www.htmlforums.com/archive/index.php/"#noframesPAGE">Click here to view a no frames version.</a></noframes><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Hope that helps.<!--content-->handy little thing the search (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.htmlforums.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=67217&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending">http://www.htmlforums.com/search.php?s= ... descending</a><!-- m -->) function!!
<br />
<br />
would it help the discussion if i said i never use frames for countless reasons<!--content-->frames are:<br />
<br />
*a nice way to structure your page<br />
*compatible with most up to date versions of most browsers<br />
<br />
<br />
frames are not:<br />
<br />
*compatible with the most common versions of most browsers<br />
*HTML 4.01 Strict compliant<br />
*all that compatible with search engines - they are likely to link to a page within a frame and you would lose the context of it.<br />
<br />
<br />
You will find that the general consensus amongst designers is that you would be better off with tables and divs.<br />
<br />
iframes suffer much the same kind of problem as ordinary frames, and are also not HTML 4.01 compliant.<br />
<br />
<br />
That said, I use frames on my intranet, but that is because I am God of my intranet, and I work with my IT buddy to make sure that everyone in the company can see what I want them to see.<br />
<br />
Out in the big wide world, I have to match what my audience is going to use/see. So I avoid frames on public sites.<!--content-->Great to hear, have you set up a frame set in dreamweaver before? There are a few things to keep in mind as you work on them. I've found that this article on "webmonkey.com" helped quite a bit working through my first frames...it's a quick read and helpful.<br />
<br />
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/96/31/index3a.html?tw=authoring">http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/96/ ... =authoring</a><!-- m --><br />
<br />
As far as the <noframes></noframes> tags, once you open the frameset in dreamweaver, and select the parent frame, you will see that that has already been added for you but is left open. When you put the cursor in that area, it moves the wysiwyg page to a blank screen where what you type in this section shows up. It's a nice tool, but frankly, if there are people still using Netscape3, or IE 2, they're missing out on alot more than just some sites with frames...time for them to upgrade.<br />
<br />
L<!--content-->I think whether or not you use frames is a matter of functionality. If you want a site, say for example a e-commerce site, frames would do far more bad then good. OIn the other hand, if you have a site where you dont expect to get a hugh nuber of hits, say a personal site or a small Download <!--more--> site, frames are ok, but should be use sparingly. I use IFRAMEs every once in a while if I know atleast 80% of the viewers will be using IE or NS6. I never use more than one IFRAME per page though. It can make the site over whelming for some w/ 3+ scrollbars!!!
Since I have been working with php / MySQL, I have use frames less and less. <br />
<br />
Dreamweaver has some handy tools for creating frames. It doesnt have IFRAMEs though. You can select from a few different framesets in the new page window, or you can divide and exsisting page into frames.<!--content-->Originally Posted by ltheiler1<br />
time for them to upgrade<br />
<br />
This has been the cause of many a heated discussion, but basically it boils down to:<br />
<br />
1. Most people don't follow bleeding or even leading edges. This forum/community is unrepresentative because practically everyone here are tech-heads.<br />
<br />
2. Most people only upgrade their browser when they a) get a new AOL disc or b) get a new PC. This is generally because they a) don't know how or b) don't really know what's available.<!--content-->Frames are convenient but only for people who support it the way you want it to be supported. Different browsers interpret Frameset HTML differently.<br />
<br />
If you have PHP support and know it, doing a PHP include syntax can replace the need for frames if you think about it.<!--content-->I've never really liked the look of frames.<br />
Sure there practical, but i think they look a bit unprofessional.<br />
Just think- do Google, Yahoo, AOL etc etc use them?<!--content-->Mainly the reason I used frames was because the sites where graphix based and optimized to the key, but they where still to slow, so I used frames so they wouldnt have to reload every page. Now that I know php, I would recommend using php to dynamically display content rather than frames. It look more profession (and I get paid more!!!!)<!--content-->
<br />
I was thinking of using frames in my site can someone give me there opinion on this matter... I have heard that not all browsers support them is this true? ... because I want something that will load ok no matter what browser is viewing (can someone give more details) ... also are they buggy?<br />
<br />
please give me some advice about them please!<br />
<br />
Thank You<br />
Mike<!--content-->Originally posted by HinkWaS <br />
Hi ,<br />
<br />
I was thinking of using frames in my site can someone give me there opinion on this matter... I have heard that not all browsers support them is this true? ... because I want something that will load ok no matter what browser is viewing (can someone give more details) ... also are they buggy?<br />
<br />
please give me some advice about them please!<br />
<br />
Thank You<br />
Mike <br />
Its partially true. Some frames don't work becuase of resolution, and iframes don't work on older browsers.<!--content-->so apart from the resolution being wrong normal frames will work on every browser?<br />
<br />
and is there a way to over come the resolution problem at all?<br />
<br />
could a make the lengh and width a fixed amount so it wont blow up or shink or anythin?<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
Mike<!--content-->Hmm, I dont really know. Most people use newer browsers though so feel free to use Iframes.<br />
-Endless Nights.<!--content-->If you want to be safe, add <noframes> content here </noframes> below your frame set (Im not sure if that will work with IFRAMES though)<!--content-->more info please...<br />
<br />
what does that do?<br />
what disadvantages?<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
Mike<!--content-->dude check this link out .. it should be of help to you ..<br />
<br />
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html</a><!-- m --><!--content-->Its just a backup for browsers that dont support frames. If the browser supports frames, it is ignored. So, as far as I know, there are no disadvantages. But like I said, it may not work with IFRAMES. I will check in my HTML ref, just ot make sure.<!--content-->frames are a great way to keep navigation and files current. You should be alright depending on how you're coding. I've found that people using Dreamweaver have an easier time maintaining their frames vs. people using FrontPage. Are you using either of these as an HTML editor, or something else...it would be easier to make a recomendation knowing this...<br />
<br />
L<!--content-->I use Dreamweaver <br />
,<br />
Mike<!--content-->I looked in my handy HTML ref and it say you should always use <noframe> tags after any frame. SE spiders have a hard time indexing the page if it doesnt contain those tags. If you dont want a lot of code in your file, I would link to a seperate NO FRAMES page. So your code would look something like this:<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe src=http://www.htmlforums.com/archive/index.php/"#yourFILE" height="50%" width="10%" scrolling="auto"></iframe><br />
<noframe>Your browers does not support frames. <a href=http://www.htmlforums.com/archive/index.php/"#noframesPAGE">Click here to view a no frames version.</a></noframes><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Hope that helps.<!--content-->handy little thing the search (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.htmlforums.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=67217&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending">http://www.htmlforums.com/search.php?s= ... descending</a><!-- m -->) function!!
<br /><br />
would it help the discussion if i said i never use frames for countless reasons
<!--content-->frames are:<br /><br />
*a nice way to structure your page<br />
*compatible with most up to date versions of most browsers<br />
<br />
<br />
frames are not:<br />
<br />
*compatible with the most common versions of most browsers<br />
*HTML 4.01 Strict compliant<br />
*all that compatible with search engines - they are likely to link to a page within a frame and you would lose the context of it.<br />
<br />
<br />
You will find that the general consensus amongst designers is that you would be better off with tables and divs.<br />
<br />
iframes suffer much the same kind of problem as ordinary frames, and are also not HTML 4.01 compliant.<br />
<br />
<br />
That said, I use frames on my intranet, but that is because I am God of my intranet, and I work with my IT buddy to make sure that everyone in the company can see what I want them to see.<br />
<br />
Out in the big wide world, I have to match what my audience is going to use/see. So I avoid frames on public sites.<!--content-->Great to hear, have you set up a frame set in dreamweaver before? There are a few things to keep in mind as you work on them. I've found that this article on "webmonkey.com" helped quite a bit working through my first frames...it's a quick read and helpful.<br />
<br />
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/96/31/index3a.html?tw=authoring">http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/96/ ... =authoring</a><!-- m --><br />
<br />
As far as the <noframes></noframes> tags, once you open the frameset in dreamweaver, and select the parent frame, you will see that that has already been added for you but is left open. When you put the cursor in that area, it moves the wysiwyg page to a blank screen where what you type in this section shows up. It's a nice tool, but frankly, if there are people still using Netscape3, or IE 2, they're missing out on alot more than just some sites with frames...time for them to upgrade.<br />
<br />
L<!--content-->I think whether or not you use frames is a matter of functionality. If you want a site, say for example a e-commerce site, frames would do far more bad then good. OIn the other hand, if you have a site where you dont expect to get a hugh nuber of hits, say a personal site or a small Download <!--more--> site, frames are ok, but should be use sparingly. I use IFRAMEs every once in a while if I know atleast 80% of the viewers will be using IE or NS6. I never use more than one IFRAME per page though. It can make the site over whelming for some w/ 3+ scrollbars!!!
Since I have been working with php / MySQL, I have use frames less and less. <br /><br />
Dreamweaver has some handy tools for creating frames. It doesnt have IFRAMEs though. You can select from a few different framesets in the new page window, or you can divide and exsisting page into frames.<!--content-->Originally Posted by ltheiler1<br />
time for them to upgrade<br />
<br />
This has been the cause of many a heated discussion, but basically it boils down to:<br />
<br />
1. Most people don't follow bleeding or even leading edges. This forum/community is unrepresentative because practically everyone here are tech-heads.<br />
<br />
2. Most people only upgrade their browser when they a) get a new AOL disc or b) get a new PC. This is generally because they a) don't know how or b) don't really know what's available.<!--content-->Frames are convenient but only for people who support it the way you want it to be supported. Different browsers interpret Frameset HTML differently.<br />
<br />
If you have PHP support and know it, doing a PHP include syntax can replace the need for frames if you think about it.<!--content-->I've never really liked the look of frames.<br />
Sure there practical, but i think they look a bit unprofessional.<br />
Just think- do Google, Yahoo, AOL etc etc use them?<!--content-->Mainly the reason I used frames was because the sites where graphix based and optimized to the key, but they where still to slow, so I used frames so they wouldnt have to reload every page. Now that I know php, I would recommend using php to dynamically display content rather than frames. It look more profession (and I get paid more!!!!)<!--content-->