How's come we don't have the new stable version of Joomla in our Fantastico thing? It would be so cool if it were there and probably easier. Hint hint.<!--content-->
It takes a few weeks for the latest stable versions to make their way into fantastico.<!--content-->
I'm going to wait for it to show up rather than try to do it all by myself. As you can probably tell by my questions,<i> I don't know what I'm doing.</i> <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/no2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no2:" border="0" alt="no2.gif" /><!--content-->
Greetings Tamiep,<br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=220125:date=Feb 10 2008, 04:02 AM:name=tamiep)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tamiep @ Feb 10 2008, 04:02 AM) <a href="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=220125"><img src='http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_images/1/post_snapback.gif' alt='*' border='0' /></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to wait for it to show up rather than try to do it all by myself. As you can probably tell by my questions,<i> I don't know what I'm doing.</i> <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/no2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no2:" border="0" alt="no2.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /> <br />There was a short thread about this a while back - <br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=219183:date=Jan 22 2008, 05:19 PM:name=TCH-Thomas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCH-Thomas @ Jan 22 2008, 05:19 PM) <a href="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=219183"><img src='http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_images/1/post_snapback.gif' alt='*' border='0' /></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Joomla 1.5 has been released.<br /><br />Read more / Get it at: joomla.org<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />...<br /><br />The upshot of the above thread is that Thomas brought up a good, sobering question: In the next couple update cycles of Fantastico that contain Joomla updates/upgrades, which path would Fantastico take:<br /><br /><ul><li> <b><i>A:</i> Take the plunge to the major upgrade and offer Joomla 1.5.x</b></li></ul><br /><br />-or -<br /><br /><ul><li> <b><i>B:</i> Continue to offer the next one or two versions of the Joomla 1.0.{13,14,...} line</b></li></ul><br /><br />Either option would be defensible and valid, I think, from Fantastico's point of view.<br /><br />I have been using Joomla 1.5.x on my business development machines and on some of my personal Linux machines at home and like it and am ready to use it for clients and my own web sites; however, as a web designer and reseller to the clients I design for, I have not yet felt comfortable using the new Joomla 1.5.x for my clients or myself. Instead, I decided that I do not have time for (potentially) costly mistakes created in the course of manually installing Joomla 1.5.x (or really any Joomla other than the Fantastico version). <br /><br />My justification for this is: The opportunity cost (mostly in terms of time) of using any version of Joomla other than that provided by Fantastico is higher than I am willing to pay, furthermore, I would like to avoid manual installations, updates and upgrades for myself and my clients to keep the time investment minimal. If I were not a reseller and were only concerned about <i>my own</i> web site (thus only having one website to maintain), then this opportunity cost price point might be very different, perhaps making it more attractive to just manually install and maintain the Joomla 1.5.x upgrade path. But that notwithstanding, it sounds like your comfort level with Joomla may make this scenario moot anyway since you may not even want to attempt a manual install and would (I am guessing) rather focus on getting content up instead of messing around with software!<br /><br />Bottom Line: If I were you, I would probably go ahead and install the Fantastico version of Joomla and then just follow whatever upgrade path Fantastico decides to use, whenever they decide to issue it. But do make sure to update/upgrade your site when new releases of Joomla are available by Fantastico (I forgot to do this for an extended period of time with one of my old Joomla websites and ended up with a site that was so hopelessly outdated that I had to start over again - *augh!*)<br /><br />In general, it has been my experience that setting up "maverick" software installations (anything not offered in Fantastico) and then later trying to use Fantastico to upgrade/update such software creates a huge mess. Often (depending on the software package) it is not even possible to later try and use Fantastico for updates/upgrades. This is particularly true if the version of the software you manually installed has bifurcated significantly from the version offered in Fantastico. At best, this does sometimes work, but is usually too messy and often either breaks many things or fails completely requiring recreating your templates, CSS, data, etc. for whatever software package you're updating/upgrading. So overall I recommend avoiding doing that entirely (and I need to take my own advice as I've got several "messes-in-progress" of just this type <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ).<br /><br />In my view, then, all of this breaks down as follows:<br /><br /><ul><li> <b>Manual Software Installations</b> <i>(Using the latest and greatest software)</i><br /><ul><li> <i>Pros:</i><br /><ul><li> Attractive because of newest features and capabilities</li><li> Ability to modify software in ways not offered using Fantastico for installations, updates and upgrades</li><li> Often has the newest security patches, model, etc</li></ul></li><li><i>Cons:</i><br /><ul><li> Possible problems with updates and upgrades if later attempted with Fantastico</li><li> Generally best to continue to maintain updates and upgrades manually</li><li> The "newest security patches/model" (from the "Pros" list above) generally comes with a cost: there are inevitably new bugs, exploits and security holes injected into the new version of the software, so you have to stay on top of all security issues, read the security releases and install the patches</li><li> Because of the two items above, the opportunity cost to you (usually in terms of time) is thus higher</li></ul></li></ul></li><li> <b>Fantastico Deluxe Installations</b> <i>(Using software available via Fantastico)</i><br /><ul><li> <i>Pros:</i><br /><ul><li> "Automagic" installations (Generally much easier than manual installations)</li><li> Generally very stable software</li><li> All known security problems are generally fixed in Fantastico versions of software</li><li> Usually very smooth transitions when updating and upgrading software</li><li> TCH is great at keeping Fantastico up to date and announcing any "gotchas" or security issues on these forums</li></ul></li><li> <i>Cons:</i><br /><ul><li> Fantastico is often slow as molasses to push new updates and upgrades of software</li><li> It's like a box of chocolates (vis-a-vis Thomas' remarks) you're never quite sure what you're going to get (or when) - this is especially true when a project branches (for example, for a while Joomla will inevitably continue to have security and minor releases of the 1.0.x series while at the same time the 1.5.x series is also available and new releases of that branch are occurring regularly)</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul><br /><br />As a kind of footnote: For what it's worth, the buzz on the Fantastico website forums is that Joomla will indeed be upgraded to v 1.5.x in Fantastico at some point in the future (see for example h**p://www.netenberg.com/forum/index.php?topic=6260.msg28932#msg28932) but I have not seen anything concrete as to what "the future" means. So, I keep using the available versions and just hoping and praying that the upgrade path provided by Fantastico from Joomla 1.0.x to Joomla 1.5.x will be seamless (even though the changes between Joomla 1.0.x and 1.5.x are pretty major) and that it will occur soon, since there are truly some nice new features and better security model with Joomla 1.5.x.<br /><br />As far as the installation being easier - there are plenty of folks here to help out with the installation part (it's really not so bad). The trickier part of running a Joomla site is the design, in particular the two main files that make up your site's "look-and-feel", the index.php template page (this defines how your website is laid out) and the template_css.css Cascading Style Sheet (which defines how your website looks, so far as colors, etc.) There are places within these great forums to ask exactly this question (how do I "skin" my Joomla website) and there are plenty of folks around who can help and give advice or just discuss how it works (I'm one of those folks who uses Joomla for my personal stuff and also for my clients - I'm certainly no expert, but I love to talk about how it all works and the "glue" needed to make a nice looking Joomla site).<br /><br />My $0.04 on the issue (the extra $0.02 above may be spurious, too much information, or just plain worthless - but is offered just in case it is useful <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> )<br /><br />Best of luck in your endeavors! <br /><br />Patrick<!--content-->
It takes a few weeks for the latest stable versions to make their way into fantastico.<!--content-->
I'm going to wait for it to show up rather than try to do it all by myself. As you can probably tell by my questions,<i> I don't know what I'm doing.</i> <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/no2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no2:" border="0" alt="no2.gif" /><!--content-->
Greetings Tamiep,<br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=220125:date=Feb 10 2008, 04:02 AM:name=tamiep)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tamiep @ Feb 10 2008, 04:02 AM) <a href="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=220125"><img src='http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_images/1/post_snapback.gif' alt='*' border='0' /></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to wait for it to show up rather than try to do it all by myself. As you can probably tell by my questions,<i> I don't know what I'm doing.</i> <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/no2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no2:" border="0" alt="no2.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /> <br />There was a short thread about this a while back - <br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=219183:date=Jan 22 2008, 05:19 PM:name=TCH-Thomas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCH-Thomas @ Jan 22 2008, 05:19 PM) <a href="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=219183"><img src='http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_images/1/post_snapback.gif' alt='*' border='0' /></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Joomla 1.5 has been released.<br /><br />Read more / Get it at: joomla.org<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />...<br /><br />The upshot of the above thread is that Thomas brought up a good, sobering question: In the next couple update cycles of Fantastico that contain Joomla updates/upgrades, which path would Fantastico take:<br /><br /><ul><li> <b><i>A:</i> Take the plunge to the major upgrade and offer Joomla 1.5.x</b></li></ul><br /><br />-or -<br /><br /><ul><li> <b><i>B:</i> Continue to offer the next one or two versions of the Joomla 1.0.{13,14,...} line</b></li></ul><br /><br />Either option would be defensible and valid, I think, from Fantastico's point of view.<br /><br />I have been using Joomla 1.5.x on my business development machines and on some of my personal Linux machines at home and like it and am ready to use it for clients and my own web sites; however, as a web designer and reseller to the clients I design for, I have not yet felt comfortable using the new Joomla 1.5.x for my clients or myself. Instead, I decided that I do not have time for (potentially) costly mistakes created in the course of manually installing Joomla 1.5.x (or really any Joomla other than the Fantastico version). <br /><br />My justification for this is: The opportunity cost (mostly in terms of time) of using any version of Joomla other than that provided by Fantastico is higher than I am willing to pay, furthermore, I would like to avoid manual installations, updates and upgrades for myself and my clients to keep the time investment minimal. If I were not a reseller and were only concerned about <i>my own</i> web site (thus only having one website to maintain), then this opportunity cost price point might be very different, perhaps making it more attractive to just manually install and maintain the Joomla 1.5.x upgrade path. But that notwithstanding, it sounds like your comfort level with Joomla may make this scenario moot anyway since you may not even want to attempt a manual install and would (I am guessing) rather focus on getting content up instead of messing around with software!<br /><br />Bottom Line: If I were you, I would probably go ahead and install the Fantastico version of Joomla and then just follow whatever upgrade path Fantastico decides to use, whenever they decide to issue it. But do make sure to update/upgrade your site when new releases of Joomla are available by Fantastico (I forgot to do this for an extended period of time with one of my old Joomla websites and ended up with a site that was so hopelessly outdated that I had to start over again - *augh!*)<br /><br />In general, it has been my experience that setting up "maverick" software installations (anything not offered in Fantastico) and then later trying to use Fantastico to upgrade/update such software creates a huge mess. Often (depending on the software package) it is not even possible to later try and use Fantastico for updates/upgrades. This is particularly true if the version of the software you manually installed has bifurcated significantly from the version offered in Fantastico. At best, this does sometimes work, but is usually too messy and often either breaks many things or fails completely requiring recreating your templates, CSS, data, etc. for whatever software package you're updating/upgrading. So overall I recommend avoiding doing that entirely (and I need to take my own advice as I've got several "messes-in-progress" of just this type <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ).<br /><br />In my view, then, all of this breaks down as follows:<br /><br /><ul><li> <b>Manual Software Installations</b> <i>(Using the latest and greatest software)</i><br /><ul><li> <i>Pros:</i><br /><ul><li> Attractive because of newest features and capabilities</li><li> Ability to modify software in ways not offered using Fantastico for installations, updates and upgrades</li><li> Often has the newest security patches, model, etc</li></ul></li><li><i>Cons:</i><br /><ul><li> Possible problems with updates and upgrades if later attempted with Fantastico</li><li> Generally best to continue to maintain updates and upgrades manually</li><li> The "newest security patches/model" (from the "Pros" list above) generally comes with a cost: there are inevitably new bugs, exploits and security holes injected into the new version of the software, so you have to stay on top of all security issues, read the security releases and install the patches</li><li> Because of the two items above, the opportunity cost to you (usually in terms of time) is thus higher</li></ul></li></ul></li><li> <b>Fantastico Deluxe Installations</b> <i>(Using software available via Fantastico)</i><br /><ul><li> <i>Pros:</i><br /><ul><li> "Automagic" installations (Generally much easier than manual installations)</li><li> Generally very stable software</li><li> All known security problems are generally fixed in Fantastico versions of software</li><li> Usually very smooth transitions when updating and upgrading software</li><li> TCH is great at keeping Fantastico up to date and announcing any "gotchas" or security issues on these forums</li></ul></li><li> <i>Cons:</i><br /><ul><li> Fantastico is often slow as molasses to push new updates and upgrades of software</li><li> It's like a box of chocolates (vis-a-vis Thomas' remarks) you're never quite sure what you're going to get (or when) - this is especially true when a project branches (for example, for a while Joomla will inevitably continue to have security and minor releases of the 1.0.x series while at the same time the 1.5.x series is also available and new releases of that branch are occurring regularly)</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul><br /><br />As a kind of footnote: For what it's worth, the buzz on the Fantastico website forums is that Joomla will indeed be upgraded to v 1.5.x in Fantastico at some point in the future (see for example h**p://www.netenberg.com/forum/index.php?topic=6260.msg28932#msg28932) but I have not seen anything concrete as to what "the future" means. So, I keep using the available versions and just hoping and praying that the upgrade path provided by Fantastico from Joomla 1.0.x to Joomla 1.5.x will be seamless (even though the changes between Joomla 1.0.x and 1.5.x are pretty major) and that it will occur soon, since there are truly some nice new features and better security model with Joomla 1.5.x.<br /><br />As far as the installation being easier - there are plenty of folks here to help out with the installation part (it's really not so bad). The trickier part of running a Joomla site is the design, in particular the two main files that make up your site's "look-and-feel", the index.php template page (this defines how your website is laid out) and the template_css.css Cascading Style Sheet (which defines how your website looks, so far as colors, etc.) There are places within these great forums to ask exactly this question (how do I "skin" my Joomla website) and there are plenty of folks around who can help and give advice or just discuss how it works (I'm one of those folks who uses Joomla for my personal stuff and also for my clients - I'm certainly no expert, but I love to talk about how it all works and the "glue" needed to make a nice looking Joomla site).<br /><br />My $0.04 on the issue (the extra $0.02 above may be spurious, too much information, or just plain worthless - but is offered just in case it is useful <img src="http://www.totalchoicehosting.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> )<br /><br />Best of luck in your endeavors! <br /><br />Patrick<!--content-->