Seadiawerseva
New Member
This discussion began in a thread about "paid links". I would have continued it there, but I was getting a little of topic from the thread's original question.
So what are my issues with Organic SEO?
If a site was to grow organically on the web, it would likely follow steps similar to these:
a. An amazing site with great content is built.
b. A few friends and family members are told.
c. These early visitors love the site so much that they tell everybody.
d. Tons of people start coming to the site, many social bookmarking it.
e. Eventually other webmasters discover the site and create links to it.
f. News and media sites hear about the site, and begin to mention it.
g. Slowly buy surely the site acquires lots of one-way links.
h. This great site now rises up in the SERPS and gets even more traffic.
Now how many webmasters here have a site that roughly followed these steps. Probably very few. Most of us are here because we are trying to learn more about how to boost our own sites in the SERPS. This is not organic. Therefore, when we acquire links on our own behalf from posting in forums and blogs, creating press releases, writing articles, submitting to directories, and exhchanging with other webmasters, we are in fact attempting to manipulate search engine results.
This means that if I were Google, I would begin to dismiss all these types of links. Webmasters should be focusing all their time on making their sites better, adding fresh new content on a regular basis, and not participating in link building on their own behalf. However, advertising is of course okay, since this is in fact how the search engines make all their money.
Anyhow, this is all just food for thought. I could write a lot more, but then nobody would actually read this. So are you saying that you think it is wrong to do backlink building? To be honest, it really doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the search engines think.
Do I still do link building? Yes. I haven't given up yet.
Do I think its still worthwhile? I think that all these forms of links are slowly losing their power. I can buy into the theory that they are losing their power, but I still think they are currently the most powerful option available. If you were to simply do what you've outlined, VERY few websites would ever have a chance. Everyone would be using the same websites because they would be the only popular ones. Yes, and that's why I have such issues with this whole concept of "Organics". Google (and the others) want us to acquire links organically, and everything else that doesn't look organic is losing its value. However, the whole notion of organic SEO is extremely problematic.
I had one website that was averaging about 3,000 new visitors a day (though only about 2,000 now because a drop in the SERPS). After about one whole year of about 3,000 new visitors a day, I honestly didn't notice one single "organic" link. If I were to check my backlinks in Yahoo, I could tell you a story behind every single one of those links and how I acquired it. Does that mean my content was absolute crap? Was my site just not good enough to warrant any visitors linking to it? Who knows. I do know that I was updating the content at least twice a week, and I was doing my absolute best to ensure I had a high quality site.
I guess what I am saying is this: I have read all the top SEO books and keep up to date on all the top SEO sites, but I still wonder if I know anything about SEO. I feel like I'm getting evaluated by a professor who refuses to talk to me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I hear ya. Its frustrating to say the least. @jasonvan Are you having a philosophical crisis of conscious with your SEO efforts?
I personal thought Google's choice of the term 'organic' was a little off target for the concept they were trying to relay. The organic checklist you relayed above would only work for something that would absolutely, mind-blowing incredibly, popular and useful that could not be reproduced without great resources, effort and talent. Even if you did create such a website, wouldn't you want to tell people about it and promote it?
The one basic fundamental that applies to anything of value is hard work and effort, they are critical factors. Choose your cliche;
*The kite rises against the wind of adversity not with it
*Half the wrecks that strew life's ocean, if some star had been their guide, might in safety now be riding, but they drifted with the tide. (you are that guiding star)
*Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - W.J. Bryan
*Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly. - Robert Kennedy
*In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. - Theodore Roosevelt
*Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice.
Forget what Google says about 'organic' I think they more so follow trends, relevance and popularity, each of those things can't happen without at least a little effort. For the last three months I have been consistently acquiring quality and relevant links to my sites, but have only seen my sites decline in the SERPS. I have no idea why.
A year ago I was on top of the world, close to early retirement, and giving others SEO advice. Now I wouldn't dare give anybody advice. I have even hired some top SEO companies to investigate and see where things went wrong. Nobody can say. I'm definitely not giving up, but I guess I just need to take a step back and reassess. I just wish Google would be a bit more transparent, but I suppose that will never happen. I guess it is too bad I was depending on the SERPS for my success.
Now I'm thinking of starting some sites that depend only on targeted ppc advertising for traffic. At least this I have some control over. i think search engines started to move to these directions. Quote: Originally Posted by jasonvan http://www.v7n.com/forums/seo-forum/231031-issues-organic-seo.html#post1575406
Article writing:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/2010.htm
I just took a close look at your blog, you could be getting much greater value from your posts if you
So what are my issues with Organic SEO?
If a site was to grow organically on the web, it would likely follow steps similar to these:
a. An amazing site with great content is built.
b. A few friends and family members are told.
c. These early visitors love the site so much that they tell everybody.
d. Tons of people start coming to the site, many social bookmarking it.
e. Eventually other webmasters discover the site and create links to it.
f. News and media sites hear about the site, and begin to mention it.
g. Slowly buy surely the site acquires lots of one-way links.
h. This great site now rises up in the SERPS and gets even more traffic.
Now how many webmasters here have a site that roughly followed these steps. Probably very few. Most of us are here because we are trying to learn more about how to boost our own sites in the SERPS. This is not organic. Therefore, when we acquire links on our own behalf from posting in forums and blogs, creating press releases, writing articles, submitting to directories, and exhchanging with other webmasters, we are in fact attempting to manipulate search engine results.
This means that if I were Google, I would begin to dismiss all these types of links. Webmasters should be focusing all their time on making their sites better, adding fresh new content on a regular basis, and not participating in link building on their own behalf. However, advertising is of course okay, since this is in fact how the search engines make all their money.
Anyhow, this is all just food for thought. I could write a lot more, but then nobody would actually read this. So are you saying that you think it is wrong to do backlink building? To be honest, it really doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the search engines think.
Do I still do link building? Yes. I haven't given up yet.
Do I think its still worthwhile? I think that all these forms of links are slowly losing their power. I can buy into the theory that they are losing their power, but I still think they are currently the most powerful option available. If you were to simply do what you've outlined, VERY few websites would ever have a chance. Everyone would be using the same websites because they would be the only popular ones. Yes, and that's why I have such issues with this whole concept of "Organics". Google (and the others) want us to acquire links organically, and everything else that doesn't look organic is losing its value. However, the whole notion of organic SEO is extremely problematic.
I had one website that was averaging about 3,000 new visitors a day (though only about 2,000 now because a drop in the SERPS). After about one whole year of about 3,000 new visitors a day, I honestly didn't notice one single "organic" link. If I were to check my backlinks in Yahoo, I could tell you a story behind every single one of those links and how I acquired it. Does that mean my content was absolute crap? Was my site just not good enough to warrant any visitors linking to it? Who knows. I do know that I was updating the content at least twice a week, and I was doing my absolute best to ensure I had a high quality site.
I guess what I am saying is this: I have read all the top SEO books and keep up to date on all the top SEO sites, but I still wonder if I know anything about SEO. I feel like I'm getting evaluated by a professor who refuses to talk to me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I hear ya. Its frustrating to say the least. @jasonvan Are you having a philosophical crisis of conscious with your SEO efforts?
I personal thought Google's choice of the term 'organic' was a little off target for the concept they were trying to relay. The organic checklist you relayed above would only work for something that would absolutely, mind-blowing incredibly, popular and useful that could not be reproduced without great resources, effort and talent. Even if you did create such a website, wouldn't you want to tell people about it and promote it?
The one basic fundamental that applies to anything of value is hard work and effort, they are critical factors. Choose your cliche;
*The kite rises against the wind of adversity not with it
*Half the wrecks that strew life's ocean, if some star had been their guide, might in safety now be riding, but they drifted with the tide. (you are that guiding star)
*Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - W.J. Bryan
*Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly. - Robert Kennedy
*In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. - Theodore Roosevelt
*Great achievement is usually born of great sacrifice.
Forget what Google says about 'organic' I think they more so follow trends, relevance and popularity, each of those things can't happen without at least a little effort. For the last three months I have been consistently acquiring quality and relevant links to my sites, but have only seen my sites decline in the SERPS. I have no idea why.
A year ago I was on top of the world, close to early retirement, and giving others SEO advice. Now I wouldn't dare give anybody advice. I have even hired some top SEO companies to investigate and see where things went wrong. Nobody can say. I'm definitely not giving up, but I guess I just need to take a step back and reassess. I just wish Google would be a bit more transparent, but I suppose that will never happen. I guess it is too bad I was depending on the SERPS for my success.
Now I'm thinking of starting some sites that depend only on targeted ppc advertising for traffic. At least this I have some control over. i think search engines started to move to these directions. Quote: Originally Posted by jasonvan http://www.v7n.com/forums/seo-forum/231031-issues-organic-seo.html#post1575406
Article writing:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/2010.htm
I just took a close look at your blog, you could be getting much greater value from your posts if you