Hi there I am deliberating about whether or not to change a tables website to a frames and tables website. Does anyone have any general opinions in this area? Which is better?<br />
<br />
Also, what way do metatags work with frames - do you just tag the index page?<br />
<br />
Many thanks for any advice in advance.<!--content-->It is really up to you. A lot of people here will complain about them not liking frames, but just ignore them. If it is just for navigation purpose then I think there is a lot of alternatives out there than can do the layout on 1 page without need for frames and still only produce one place to update all the links (by linking in javascript libraries etc). <br />
<br />
If you need it for layout purpose, e.g. you don't want material scrolling out of view, e.g. headers, legends/keys such as (g)=go, (s)=stop, (r)=rambling mad, (f) = fine, etc then frames are fine. Also if you want to display external information or information from seperate files (such as 'preview') then using frames are also ok.<br />
<br />
You may want to consider 'Iframes' which does not appear so imposing as regular framesets, but I would say it is up to your own judgement.<br />
<br />
Maybe you can give an example of your site and we will try to guide you more specifictly if frames would add any particular value in your case ?<br />
<br />
I think the key question to ask yourself is: does frames add particular value to the layout or navigation experience for the user then go ahead (it should be other than an easier update task as webmaster for navigation purpose.. as mentioned there is many other alternatives out there).<!--content-->I agree with KD. Tons of people hate frames, but usually its the developers fault for poor implimentation. I saw a site on this bulletin board that had 11 frames (and some frames in frames). talk about a nighmare... but the developer was soooooo proud of the work. <br />
<br />
I work in the IT field, and I can say that you should use every bit of technology to your advantage. Though my general feeling is not in favor of frames, they have been very useful to me in a variety of situations.... and I would not give them up by choice when I've chosen to use them. <br />
<br />
You could make frames/ tables/ scrolling divs work for you (and your audience) if you choose to. Frames are easy to impliment... but also easy to mess up, and easy to dislike when poorly done.<!--content-->Many thanks to those of you who have replied, especially so quickly!<br />
<br />
The problem arose as I had designed a navigation bar using coffee cup that wanted a 'target frame'. (well at least was the only thing that I could figure out was wrong).I couldnt find why this was in the help files and I was really happy with the navigation bar, and the way that it looked on the page. Having a little experience with frames I figured no probs I'll just change it over. So I did, however I feel that the frame is a waste of 'space' on the page. I can see the pros to easy navigation, but when I needed a bigger nav bar I didnt like the fact that it had to scroll. Oops! I could just have made the index page scrolling=yes now on reflection.<br />
<br />
I guess I just prefer working with tables!<br />
<br />
Many thanks once again, and anyone with any experience with coffeecup software out there do they have an idea where Im going wrong?<br />
<br />
Sonya<!--content-->I agree with Dr Web. Im not a fan of frames, they annoy me at the best of times, usually because people implementing them have forgotten to turn off scrollbars/remove borders etc etc. However, there have been occasions when I had to use them. As long as they are done correctly they are not massively annoying. However. Server Side Includes are a much better option in my opinion. you can build a page with a table and bang your includes in. This also speeds up loading times as once a user has opened one page on your site all the SSI files will be in cache and not need to be Download <!--more-->ed again.<!--content-->my biggest gripe with frames is the way they mess up history and bookmarking of internal pages.<!--content-->I like frames but there is a huge problem with them, maybe not for you. Skimming threads so far and I don't think this has been mentioned.<br />
<br />
Search engines won't search your site at all or properly. So if you are looking for traffic via a search engine then you will have no chance with frames. There are tricks around em but not worth the time if there is a better alternative. So think hard about the idea of having search engines look at your site or not.<!--content-->frames were ok in about 97 but they are incredibly outdated and your site will have a very poor search engine rating because of it - i know this from experience, i designed a site in frames when i first began to develop websites. I removed the frames and my visits more than doubled in less than 2 weeks<br />
<br />
some sites do however work well with sites - eg my local job site uses frames but it relies on off net promotion to get hits<br />
<br />
use server side includes instead
<!--content-->Frames usually need some extra coding. Many visitors will arrive at your website on one of your right-hand panels, but because they arrived from a SE result the panel will not be framed. You'll need some extra code to put the panel back in its frame. Tables avoid this problem.<!--content-->IFRAMES, IFRAMES, IFRAMES!!<!--content-->iframs suck<br />
they are IE only (looks terrible in mozilla derivatives) so i wouldnt reccomend using them<!--content-->I enjoy them
<!--content-->
<br />
Also, what way do metatags work with frames - do you just tag the index page?<br />
<br />
Many thanks for any advice in advance.<!--content-->It is really up to you. A lot of people here will complain about them not liking frames, but just ignore them. If it is just for navigation purpose then I think there is a lot of alternatives out there than can do the layout on 1 page without need for frames and still only produce one place to update all the links (by linking in javascript libraries etc). <br />
<br />
If you need it for layout purpose, e.g. you don't want material scrolling out of view, e.g. headers, legends/keys such as (g)=go, (s)=stop, (r)=rambling mad, (f) = fine, etc then frames are fine. Also if you want to display external information or information from seperate files (such as 'preview') then using frames are also ok.<br />
<br />
You may want to consider 'Iframes' which does not appear so imposing as regular framesets, but I would say it is up to your own judgement.<br />
<br />
Maybe you can give an example of your site and we will try to guide you more specifictly if frames would add any particular value in your case ?<br />
<br />
I think the key question to ask yourself is: does frames add particular value to the layout or navigation experience for the user then go ahead (it should be other than an easier update task as webmaster for navigation purpose.. as mentioned there is many other alternatives out there).<!--content-->I agree with KD. Tons of people hate frames, but usually its the developers fault for poor implimentation. I saw a site on this bulletin board that had 11 frames (and some frames in frames). talk about a nighmare... but the developer was soooooo proud of the work. <br />
<br />
I work in the IT field, and I can say that you should use every bit of technology to your advantage. Though my general feeling is not in favor of frames, they have been very useful to me in a variety of situations.... and I would not give them up by choice when I've chosen to use them. <br />
<br />
You could make frames/ tables/ scrolling divs work for you (and your audience) if you choose to. Frames are easy to impliment... but also easy to mess up, and easy to dislike when poorly done.<!--content-->Many thanks to those of you who have replied, especially so quickly!<br />
<br />
The problem arose as I had designed a navigation bar using coffee cup that wanted a 'target frame'. (well at least was the only thing that I could figure out was wrong).I couldnt find why this was in the help files and I was really happy with the navigation bar, and the way that it looked on the page. Having a little experience with frames I figured no probs I'll just change it over. So I did, however I feel that the frame is a waste of 'space' on the page. I can see the pros to easy navigation, but when I needed a bigger nav bar I didnt like the fact that it had to scroll. Oops! I could just have made the index page scrolling=yes now on reflection.<br />
<br />
I guess I just prefer working with tables!<br />
<br />
Many thanks once again, and anyone with any experience with coffeecup software out there do they have an idea where Im going wrong?<br />
<br />
Sonya<!--content-->I agree with Dr Web. Im not a fan of frames, they annoy me at the best of times, usually because people implementing them have forgotten to turn off scrollbars/remove borders etc etc. However, there have been occasions when I had to use them. As long as they are done correctly they are not massively annoying. However. Server Side Includes are a much better option in my opinion. you can build a page with a table and bang your includes in. This also speeds up loading times as once a user has opened one page on your site all the SSI files will be in cache and not need to be Download <!--more-->ed again.<!--content-->my biggest gripe with frames is the way they mess up history and bookmarking of internal pages.<!--content-->I like frames but there is a huge problem with them, maybe not for you. Skimming threads so far and I don't think this has been mentioned.<br />
<br />
Search engines won't search your site at all or properly. So if you are looking for traffic via a search engine then you will have no chance with frames. There are tricks around em but not worth the time if there is a better alternative. So think hard about the idea of having search engines look at your site or not.<!--content-->frames were ok in about 97 but they are incredibly outdated and your site will have a very poor search engine rating because of it - i know this from experience, i designed a site in frames when i first began to develop websites. I removed the frames and my visits more than doubled in less than 2 weeks<br />
<br />
some sites do however work well with sites - eg my local job site uses frames but it relies on off net promotion to get hits<br />
<br />
use server side includes instead
<!--content-->Frames usually need some extra coding. Many visitors will arrive at your website on one of your right-hand panels, but because they arrived from a SE result the panel will not be framed. You'll need some extra code to put the panel back in its frame. Tables avoid this problem.<!--content-->IFRAMES, IFRAMES, IFRAMES!!<!--content-->iframs suck<br />they are IE only (looks terrible in mozilla derivatives) so i wouldnt reccomend using them<!--content-->I enjoy them
<!--content-->