after writing an article on accessibility, i have a few questions about it, lol...charles, in my other post, mentioned a "skip navigation" link, which i have already implemented, and just found out that opera ignores the "display: none" anyways, CSS on or off, lol...i followed this article (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.happycog.com/lectures/access/50.html">http://www.happycog.com/lectures/access/50.html</a><!-- m -->) to set it up, however tabbing through the links doesnt seem to be working for me (i dont use it much anyways)...i put an <a name="primarycontent"></a> tag right above my content, however, what happens then? the user clicks or hits enter on the skip nav link (accesskeys dont seem to be working either - its Alt+accesskey, right?), and then it skips down to the content...but what happens after that? can anyone shed some light on this?<br />
<br />
also, id like to if possible, when the CSS is turned off, move the navigation links down below the content...either that or make them into one big long line...is there any way to do this easily, or would i have to write the links out the way i wanted it withOUT css and then reformat it using the css?<!--content-->I'm not sure about the skip navigation link, but for accesskeys it is definitely alt+key for Mozilla and IE, though in Moz it automatically follows the link and in IE it simply selects it, requiring you to press enter as well.<br />
<br />
I keep navigation below content when CSS is off by placing my links in a <div> at the bottom of the HTML code, then moving it to the side of the screen using the "float" selector.<br />
<br />
Adam<!--content-->If your links are floated from underneath doesn't that mean they stay underneath, even when floated? (including when css is on?) Or have I missed out on some trick (most likely!)<br />
<br />
Maybe your solution would be to use absolute positioning on the leftbar, and a margin-left on the mainbar. That way your menu div could be underneath in your code.<br />
<br />
I've used Display:none with Opera 7.1 and it worked. <br />
My actual code was: .print{display:none;}<br />
So who knows what's happening there LOL!<!--content-->The sidebar will probably appear correctly if you float your content to the right as well (sorry, should have mentioned that), but on second thoughts using absolute positioning might be easier.<br />
<br />
Adam<!--content-->hmm, i was afraid of that...well im sick of this layout anyways, it only looks good in IE and looks all messy in every other browser ive tested
so ill switch the links around when i switch the layout around as well, lol...kill two birds with one stone...<br />
<br />
and hehe, i think when i saw the Skip Nav link, i had turned CSS off...lol, i wasnt thinking straight yesterday after like 5 hours in front of a comp, lol...<br />
<br />
alright, so i guess my question is: if you have a name anchor to skip part of the way down a page (skip nav), would the tab skip down to there as well, so it would continue on from that point onward? i guess thats how i would want it to work, lol...<!--content-->Have a look at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/worthvalley/">http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/worthvalley/</a><!-- m --> if you want to "see" a skip link in action targeting to an id rather than a hyperlink.<br />
<br />
If the target can obtain focus then it will start from there when using the keyboard.<!--content-->lol...<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
lol.<!--content-->ahh, i see, thanks, i understand it now...*lightbulb springs up above head*<br />
<br />
lol...but having said that, ive changed the layout of my page (i needed to anyway) and now the navbar is on the right...lol, so ive taken out the skip nav link anyways, hehe...<br />
<br />
but what you CAN tell me is why Opera, even though its such a stickler for accessibility and standards, wont get rid of the body margins using CSS, and will only cut them off if you stick topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" in my body tag...which then throws off my XHTML 1.0 compliance <br />
<br />
is there any way to get around this? some sort of hack, or maybe something that i just plain missed?<!--content-->try absolutely positioning your body tag in the top left.<!--content-->good idea, but it didnt solve the problem...the margins still get applied in opera, and all the absolute positioning starts from the margins (at least from what i gather, considering it didnt work)...<!--content-->Strange. In Opera I've always found that leaving something at the top of the page leaves it with margins, absolutely positioning puts it in the corner. (it's always seemed illogical to me too!)<!--content-->Adding the following should solve the problem, though you have some weird code <![endif]--> that might upset the browsers it would be best to remove the odd code.<br />
<br />
body {<br />
margin: 0px; padding: 0px;<br />
}<!--content-->that "weird code" is an IE conditional comment - it only runs in IE, and will just be ignored by all other browsers because of the <!-- --> - i got the code for it at this forum somewhere, lol...it just sets a few things up for IE to make it look a bit better...<br />
<br />
and i have the margin: 0 in my stylesheet, however i never thought about trying padding - its worth a shot
<br />
<br />
yay! it works great! thanx man, i never even thought about padding...all the other browsers use margin...now i can have my valid XHTML and my Opera too!<br />
<br />
(have my cake and eat it too....bah never mind)<!--content-->
<br />
also, id like to if possible, when the CSS is turned off, move the navigation links down below the content...either that or make them into one big long line...is there any way to do this easily, or would i have to write the links out the way i wanted it withOUT css and then reformat it using the css?<!--content-->I'm not sure about the skip navigation link, but for accesskeys it is definitely alt+key for Mozilla and IE, though in Moz it automatically follows the link and in IE it simply selects it, requiring you to press enter as well.<br />
<br />
I keep navigation below content when CSS is off by placing my links in a <div> at the bottom of the HTML code, then moving it to the side of the screen using the "float" selector.<br />
<br />
Adam<!--content-->If your links are floated from underneath doesn't that mean they stay underneath, even when floated? (including when css is on?) Or have I missed out on some trick (most likely!)<br />
<br />
Maybe your solution would be to use absolute positioning on the leftbar, and a margin-left on the mainbar. That way your menu div could be underneath in your code.<br />
<br />
I've used Display:none with Opera 7.1 and it worked. <br />
My actual code was: .print{display:none;}<br />
So who knows what's happening there LOL!<!--content-->The sidebar will probably appear correctly if you float your content to the right as well (sorry, should have mentioned that), but on second thoughts using absolute positioning might be easier.<br />
<br />
Adam<!--content-->hmm, i was afraid of that...well im sick of this layout anyways, it only looks good in IE and looks all messy in every other browser ive tested
so ill switch the links around when i switch the layout around as well, lol...kill two birds with one stone...<br /><br />
and hehe, i think when i saw the Skip Nav link, i had turned CSS off...lol, i wasnt thinking straight yesterday after like 5 hours in front of a comp, lol...<br />
<br />
alright, so i guess my question is: if you have a name anchor to skip part of the way down a page (skip nav), would the tab skip down to there as well, so it would continue on from that point onward? i guess thats how i would want it to work, lol...<!--content-->Have a look at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/worthvalley/">http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/worthvalley/</a><!-- m --> if you want to "see" a skip link in action targeting to an id rather than a hyperlink.<br />
<br />
If the target can obtain focus then it will start from there when using the keyboard.<!--content-->lol...<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
lol.<!--content-->ahh, i see, thanks, i understand it now...*lightbulb springs up above head*<br />
<br />
lol...but having said that, ive changed the layout of my page (i needed to anyway) and now the navbar is on the right...lol, so ive taken out the skip nav link anyways, hehe...<br />
<br />
but what you CAN tell me is why Opera, even though its such a stickler for accessibility and standards, wont get rid of the body margins using CSS, and will only cut them off if you stick topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" in my body tag...which then throws off my XHTML 1.0 compliance
<br /><br />
is there any way to get around this? some sort of hack, or maybe something that i just plain missed?<!--content-->try absolutely positioning your body tag in the top left.<!--content-->good idea, but it didnt solve the problem...the margins still get applied in opera, and all the absolute positioning starts from the margins (at least from what i gather, considering it didnt work)...
<!--content-->Strange. In Opera I've always found that leaving something at the top of the page leaves it with margins, absolutely positioning puts it in the corner. (it's always seemed illogical to me too!)<!--content-->Adding the following should solve the problem, though you have some weird code <![endif]--> that might upset the browsers it would be best to remove the odd code.<br /><br />
body {<br />
margin: 0px; padding: 0px;<br />
}<!--content-->that "weird code" is an IE conditional comment - it only runs in IE, and will just be ignored by all other browsers because of the <!-- --> - i got the code for it at this forum somewhere, lol...it just sets a few things up for IE to make it look a bit better...<br />
<br />
and i have the margin: 0 in my stylesheet, however i never thought about trying padding - its worth a shot
<br /><br />
yay! it works great! thanx man, i never even thought about padding...all the other browsers use margin...now i can have my valid XHTML and my Opera too!<br />
<br />
(have my cake and eat it too....bah never mind)<!--content-->